Lee Smith

Transcript

Xavier: Welcome to the Producer Gathering podcast. And today we’re speaking with Lee Smith, a wonderful independent producer based in Brighton. Lee, would you like to introduce yourself, please?  

Lee: Hi, everyone, and thank you to Xav and Producer Gathering for speaking to me today. Yeah, as I’ve said, I’m an independent producer working in Brighton and the Southeast and currently working with organisations like New Writing South, Marlborough Productions and some independent artists as well.  

Xavier: How did you start producing? 

Lee: So I started working in theatre, actually, at 16, I joined my local theatre, an art centre, the Brewhouse in Taunton, Somerset, where I grew up as a front of House assistant. And I also joined the youth theatre. I really loved drama and performing at school, but knew performing wasn’t my calling. So they had the option where you could shadow the professionals on the creative and production team. And so the first year I shadowed the director and that wasn’t quite for me. And the second year I shadowed the producer and absolutely caught the producing bug and realised that that was what I wanted to do with my life and career. So when I finished my A-levels, instead of going down the higher education rate, I went to the Brewhouse and asked if they’d take me on as an apprentice, and they hadn’t done that before. So I had all the information on how they could set that up and thankfully they agreed to do that.  

So I was their ‘artistic apprentice’ for a year, assisting the artistic team, and that was a really great foundation, I got to project manage and produce various things there and then. Straight after that, I decided to make a go of it at freelance producing and spend a couple of years trying to do that in the South West, but that was against the backdrop of the credit crunch and the recession. So I think Somerset County Council were certainly the first possibly the only council to cut one hundred percent of arts funding all in one day.  

So the theatre, unfortunately, closed down, went into administration and closed down within 18 months of them doing that. So I didn’t really see a future for me anymore in the southwest of England. And I also knew I was trans and queer. So I was looking to move somewhere more queer, friendly and have my sights set on Brighton. So I moved to Brighton at that point and spent a couple of years doing various paid and unpaid producing work alongside being really miserable in retail and just not really getting my break. So I took a few years out at that point to do a degree. It was a philosophy degree and it wasn’t quite right for me – and we don’t really talk about that!  

But yeah, I do think people have taken me more seriously with a degree. For better or worse. When I came out of university, I saw a role at what at the time was Marlborough Theatre and is now Marlborough Productions to be an assistant producer on the Trans Pride season. And at that point, I thought, you know, as a Trans producer, there can’t be that many of us, if I can’t land this role, then, yeah, I have serious doubts about my producing future. But I did land that role, thankfully. And I’m really grateful to Abby Butcher and Ema Boswood for hiring me in that position. And that was kind of a springboard for everything. Everything seemed to fall into place from the, through the support of Marlborough Productions. And I’m now able to make a living from freelance producing. And here I am.  

Xavier de Sousa  I want to ask, for instance, how do you from your perspective, from your own experience, how do you define the role of producer or the work that you do as a producer?  

Lee Smith So I was actually in Bryony Kimmings’ workshop the other day. She was running a workshop called The Art of Producing with Philippa Barr and I think Philippa was quoting someone else, but she referred to the producer as the banker, the cheerleader and the firefighter. And I really loved the description of what the role of the producer is. Banker, it’s quite self explanatory, raising and looking after the money, cheerleading, being a real champion for the projects, both internally and externally, I think.

So whilst you’re getting maybe funder’s, partners, programmers, audiences interested and excited about work, I think it’s about keeping people enthused about the project on the inside as well, because some people sometimes you can lose faith and enthusiasm within projects, and I think maybe the producers role is to keep everyone focussed on the shared vision and passion they all have for the project. You know, there’s an excitement when you sign up to produce an arts project. And I think maybe the role of the producer is to keep that in everyone’s mind. And also the firefighter part of that description is probably my favourite thing about producing. 

I love the problem solving part of producing, and I feel that’s the most creative part of being a producer, being able to find the best possible outcomes to any problems that come up. And that’s where I really think the role of the producer is far and away, like really worth your weight in gold.  

Xavier: Awesome, thanks very much. And so tell us a little bit about the things that you’ve learnt the most from all the projects that you’ve done over the years.  

Lee Smith I suppose I’m probably not going to go into any specific scenarios or projects, but some general things I’ve learnt. I think it’s really useful to have agreements and contracts in place with people, or at least as much as you can possibly have in writing before engaging someone on a project. Not because I think most people are out to swindle you, but I think it protects both you and the person you’re engaging. I think it’s generally good practice and it prevents misunderstandings and miscommunications. 

Another thing that I’ve been reflecting on is when I first started out, I took a lot of pride in doing everything as cheaply as possible. But I think as I’ve grown as a person and a producer, I think it’s more important to take pride in paying people as well and as generously as possible. And that it’s actually been really, really useful to have it confirmed from Funder’s that [they are] not all that interested in people delivering projects as cheaply as possible, but they want people to be paid fairly and well. I think, yeah, those are my top tips, I think. 

Xavier: OK, and what are the main challenges of being an independent producer in the current COVID19 climate? 

Lee: So I’ve been really fortunate, actually, during the pandemic, lots of my projects have been able to move online and I’ve also been considering how, kind of unusually, independent producers might be in a better position than venues within organisations at the moment. I guess I’m referring to producers within venues specifically and the challenges they’re facing in keeping those venues and organisations afloat, whereas I felt like independent producers can adapt their projects more quickly or can propose covid safe projects. 

I think another challenge is taking work online. I’m not that in favour of moving live performance online just for the sake of it. I think that it does have to make sense in that form because some work is just meant for public performance in public space. And that’s fine. And there will be a time for that to happen again. But digital performance is an art form in itself, and I think by moving everything online, it’s dismissive to the art form. And I think we need to carefully consider what we’re presenting online. And I guess to add on to that, it’s a new challenge and how we promote, can present work to audiences online, because we’re not necessarily used to engaging with people online. So it’s a whole new medium for us to get used to across the board. 

Xavier: Final question, what did you wish you knew before you started producing? 

Lee: I think When I first started out producing, there was a culture of unpaid placements and doing a lot of work for free before you could get paid work and I still see value in and the unpaid work that I did, and I don’t think I’d be where I am today without having done a lot of unpaid work to to gain experience. But I think it’s kind of what I wish I knew and what I’d advise to other people looking to become producers is making sure that you’re benefiting from any unpaid work. 

You do voluntary work, whether it’s gaining new skills or whether it’s going to lead to something bigger and better and hopefully paid in the future. And I think if you do find yourself in a position where you’re volunteering in an arts organisation, that we can be more demanding about what we expect in return, whether there’s certain training or advice or mentoring that you want. And I think it’s also about recognising when it’s time to stop doing work for free and make that transition into being a fully paid professional and recognising your own value and worth.

And I think that goes both ways, when you’re applying for funding you should be making sure people are getting paid well and fairly. I think just to promote what we’re doing as well with the Producer Gathering… I wish I’d had access to a community of producers when I first started out. Something that I found really useful is using a hot desk, and when Marlborough Productions was still in its previous venue and having that sense of community and having other people to whether you need a rant or whether you need a sounding board or advice. And I guess in the more recent years, there’s been resources like certain Facebook groups. I think we’re both on UK Theatre Producers, which I find a really useful resource in either asking advice or saying what other people are discussing. 

Xavier: Yeah, OK, thank you very much, Lee, and good luck with everything that you’re doing, and I hope that we can do more of this in future soon. 

Lee: Thank you

Interview by Xavier de Sousa
Edited by Olive Mondegreen
Music by Olive Mondegreen