From Independent Producers to Leadership

Navigating the Upskilling Journey

By Natalie Chan

I am a few months into my role as Director/CEO for Kakilang. I’m learning more and more about the organisation and undertaking more dreaming to see where I can take the organisation next in partnership with our team, board, and community. While looking forward, I’m also looking back and feeling pretty proud of the journey I’ve gone through, from producer stepping up to a leadership role. It is so hard to know how to structure your career path and make decisions on what jobs to take in a strategic way when you are in the thick of it; most of the time, we all “roll with the punches” to see which of your projects gets through, what jobs you can secure and map out your year like that, especially as freelancers. (I am speaking for myself here, but maybe you can relate)

My experience focuses on applying for jobs as an Executive Director/Leader rather than becoming one through setting up and growing your own company or being nurtured within the same company and working your way up within it, which is equally brilliant 

Whilst sometimes you can see a trend, for example, many new executive leadership positions might be created after an NPO round, it is generally quite hard to predict when those jobs will become available because, let’s be honest, many jobs at this level are open because people have moved on, or taken maternity leave, etc, so I would suggest if you are keen, it’s never too early to start thinking, strategizing about it, because sometimes by the time you see a job advertised, there’s only a short window to apply. Only to start thinking about it by that time, it could be a bit late. It’s only now, having achieved what I consider a major milestone and looking back from here, that I realised the patterns and decisions I’ve made that helped me get here, so I hope sharing my two senses will be useful. I am a strong believer that there’s no one set path, and everyone is the expert on their own individual journey. I’m sharing in the spirit of taking what’s useful for you and creating your own version of it.

I’ve tried to separate it into takeaways from my journey as an independent producer and my tips for leaping into leadership roles.

My journey as an independent producer

Broadening your portfolio of skills 

Typically, through my own lived experience and seeing other leaders before me, you would go for the smallest size of NPOs or organisations with some regular income as your first leadership role, usually the turnover of these organisations is around £200-500k per year, have small team of around 5 people (give or take – some more some less, also depends there may be more part-time staff, or less staff if all full-time). Whilst you absolutely don’t need to know everything and a key to being a good leader is bringing in other people who are better than you to come and do the specific jobs (e.g. marketing, accountant), it is helpful to have an understanding/some knowledge of everything that typically sits under the Executive Director, so usually, finance, operations, fundraising, marketing, ticketing, HR, governance so you know whether your staff is delivering up to standard, and because the ED is often required to jump in on anything and everything, at a small company. 

You often hear the phrases a “small but mighty team”, small team punching above our weight etc. Usually, these organisations will say that they are on an ambitious, growing journey, so having a broad range of experience across different cultures, locations, art forms, and sectors, is often an advantage and shows that you are someone who shares the same personality of this organisation – also ambitious and growing alongside each other. 

I would look back at your own producer journey, at your strengths and areas of development, – e.g. you are good at fundraising and ACE bids but less strong on, say, digital and social media marketing; you could look at doing a 1-day course/conference say with Arts Marketing Association or say if you are freelance, take on a contract that focuses on outreach/marketing. If you’ve always produced indoor theatre shows, maybe try an outdoor, dance, or film project. None of this needs to be full-time, and it can also be a scheme or lightly touched, for example, I did the Creative Producer Lab with BFI Film Hub Midlands which is 2 hour workshops each week, alongside working at In Good Company/Derby Theatre.  The key here is trying to have things in our work history/CV that ensure your ticket has as many boxes in the person specification of the ED job as possible.

Network building

Whilst building my career as a producer over the past few years, I was also navigating moving to London from Hong Kong as an adult, with many friends I met during University having moved away/back to their home countries, so I had a genuine desire to find people to hang out with, whom I can share the ups and downs in life with, as a friend, without needing ever to work together. However, in our industry, it’s so easy for work and life to intersect and for these lines to be blurred; I have gotten better at this in recent years, much better than when I started, and being clear with people about my intentions / what I’m wanting (and hearing theirs) once we’ve acquainted. 

This has proven so useful in providing the cheerleading that I needed in my life when job-hunting and pursuing these leadership jobs. I don’t think I would have gotten this far, and I’m definitely drawing on these people as I settle into my first leadership role. 

I definitely don’t make friends for this reason, but to say, you often get only a few days or 1 week’s notice before an interview, and if, like me, you’d really value speaking to someone who’s gone through that for advice, or get some insights into an organisation, then already having a strong relationship where making time to have a quick phone call or a WhatsApp voice note back/forth- even if it means unsociable hours (as dairies are hard to line up), doesn’t feel like a burden, but rather a joy to chat to a friend. 

I have also found building relationships much more natural when I’m not needing something, I had started going to events that I can access and everything I’ve been invited to before I was actively raising money/producing my own work and tried my best to keep in touch with like-minded people (I usually go for seeing a show together, because actually, I find it less awkward to have to sustain an hour-long conversation when it’s short conversations before, interval and after the show.) So when it comes to needing those relationships because I’m actively producing / marketing work, I already have a sustained network I can draw on, and the same principles apply to my leadership position now; I know reaching out to people to discuss fundraising, co-productions, programming, touring will feel much easier as I know hand to heart I’ve made the effort to keep in touch over the years. 

I say this whilst also acknowledging the amount of unpaid work we all do, and I consider myself privileged for many reasons to have time in my hands to do the leg work for relationships. But I would say there are still little things you can do to maintain your reputation and take acquaintance relationships to the next level, and these require less time: 

• Always action what you say; if you’ve promised to send a document/introduce them to someone else, always try and do it straight after the meeting 
• I get sent jobs/opportunities/asked for recommendations from time to time, I will always try and forward that email to a few other people that are in my mind would be a fit, it’s always targeted so those people know it’s more than just re-tweeting something. (Some people prefer tagging people on Twitter – which is also great). This takes me a few minutes each day/week, but it does wonders and of course, other people have done the same for me or supported me in other ways (e.g. remembering to invite me to their shows)

My tips if you want to leap into leadership roles

Start applying for jobs before you *think* you’re ready 

Interviews for senior positions are hard, and the best practice you can get is by actually applying and interviewing for these jobs; after each interview, you have a chance to reflect on which questions you feel more confident in answering and which ones feel like a stretch and work on those (sometimes it’s actually needing to plug those experience gaps, as above, sometimes it’s finding the right examples to articulate). My first ED application was in Spring 2021, more than 2.5 years ago. Over this period, I’ve been happily continuing my existing jobs, working as a freelance producer, but have been going for jobs if they are the right fit; every interview experience taught me something, and for a job interview at this level, the panel usually also genuinely respect you, your career & work, so even if you don’t get given the job, people are usually more than happy to keep in touch, and will genuinely bear you in mind for other things. 

I applied for a total of 10 jobs, got interviewed for 5, and got offered 1. 

Create an environment that motivates you to apply for jobs 

I’m sure many of us can relate to or still remember when we first got started in the industry, applying to hundreds of things, not getting anywhere, and then eventually, the 1 thing that worked out started your path. It’s so natural when you’re busy working, you’re less likely to be focusing on scrolling through Twitter for opportunities, but you’ll do that if you have less work.

If you’re thinking of Executive/Leadership jobs, chances are you are in high demand at the current level you’re working at as a producer or a mid-level or middle management role (e.g., Development Manager, Marketing Manager). So it’s easy to put the “stepping up to Exec” goal on the back burner because life gets busy. 

For me, the motivation I created for myself was taking a fixed-term maternity cover role as a Producer with In Good Company; knowing it had a firm and fixed end date gave me the push I needed to personalise those CVs and cover letters. I was also awarded a Developing Your Creative Practice grant from ACE, which allowed me to take on less freelance work and prioritise applying for Executive/Leadership jobs – which is exactly the development I wanted to undertake. 

Try to really understand the context of organisations 

When you are applying, and interviewing for leadership jobs, really try and understand where this organisation is at in its journey e.g. 

• Is it shifting away from founder-led for this recruitment? Are they led by a founding Creative Director appointing their first Executive Director for example:
  
• Are they becoming NPOs for the first time? Or are we at a crucial moment where we’re waiting on results from NPO?
• How big is the team, and is the team in place? For example, Are you coming to build infrastructure or recruit other staff from scratch, or is there a strong supporting team in place? If there are existing roles, what levels are these roles?  

All of this will help strengthen how you present yourself, alongside showcasing your skills and experience 

When you do get a job (I say when, not if, as I’m sure you’ll get there if you want to – I believe in you!)

A word of advice is…

to really try to dig deep and understand where an organisation is before accepting the leadership role (financially and also other aspects), and think about whether the fundraising targets are realistic and achievable. If you are stepping up, make sure the board and team understand that.